Intro: Do you find yourself running out of time to accomplish your work? Are you spending time doing things that you’re not that good at? There are effective ways to outsource these tasks so you can focus on your business. This is the Virtual Success Show. We bring the inside scoop on outsourcing success for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs. And now, here are your hosts, Matt Malouf and Barbara Turley.

Barbara Turley: Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Virtual Success Show, where we are streaming live now online for our episodes of the show. I’m Barbara Turley, your host. I co-host this show with my good friend Matt Malouf. And today we’re here to talk about the very topical topic right now of podcasts and I’m joined by good friend and someone I work very closely with, Tom Schwab from Interview Valet, who is the go to guy if you want to be talking about podcasts, you know, getting on podcasts, getting guests on your podcast. Welcome to the show, Tom. Thanks for joining us today.

Tom Schwab: Barbara, I am thrilled to be here. And there are a lot of problems in the world. But there is no better time to be alive. We look at the technology that we have. And still, we can reach customers around the world.

Barbara Turley: Absolutely, yes. So you know, like, guys, you guys watching the Facebook Live, you know that we are in a major crisis right now. There have been many crises that have happened throughout time. I have to say I was thinking to myself today, I’m old enough now to say that this is not my first rodeo with crises like this. We’ve had the 2008 financial crisis, we had the tech bubble collapse, and in my career, I’ve been through a couple of these. So it’s every crisis brings its own challenges, but I always feel that they’re crises nonetheless, and some things that we do in business are the same. Now, in this particular situation that we’re in right now, I feel podcasts are really gonna be it. So Tom, talk to us about, first of all, why podcasts, in general, are a brilliant marketing strategy for any business right now. But also, why now specifically?

Tom Schwab: Well, the way I look at it is that every business’s biggest problem is obscurity, right? There are millions, thousands, millions of customers that you could serve right now, with your current product, your current offering, your current service. The only problem is they don’t know you exist. Right now, a lot of people talk about breaking through the noise. Honestly, I think that’s like adding to the noise, right? The idea that I’m going to yell and somebody’s gonna hear me, I think is laughable, right? So, if I can get in on the conversation that my ideal customers are already listening to, that’s golden. If I can get introduced by somebody who is a trusted resource, a trusted friend of theirs, that’s golden. And really, that’s what podcasts and especially podcast interview marketing are all about, right?

So, most of the people listening, watching, have no idea who Tom Schwab is, but they know who Barbara Turley is. They know the Virtual Success Show. They love that. And so there’s that transfer of authority. And so I think it’s a time-proven strategy, but it’s using current technology to connect with people in here. You know, here I am in Kalamazoo, Michigan. If I can do podcasts and podcast interviews from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you can do it from anywhere.

Barbara Turley: And I’m in France, right? So I’m here in the French Alps, actually, stuck in the middle of the virus thing that’s going on right now and where we are. So Tom, with everything that’s going on right now, I mean, everyone’s kind of in panic mode, still wondering what’s going to happen next. But the one thing that I know I am certain of right now is everybody is on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, podcasts, webinars, like everybody is online right now because everyone’s stuck at home in this particular crisis that we’re in. So talk to me about you know, what, how can we capitalize on this fast with podcasts, and we haven’t got a podcast yet. You know, podcast guestings, that’s another thing that people don’t really know is an opportunity, right now talk more about that.

Tom Schwab: You know, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that we have here. So you can look at it as a problem or as an opportunity. One of my, you know, I’ve been on 1200 podcasts interviews. I’ve never launched my own podcast. I’m going to take this opportunity to start doing that. But that’s going to be a long-term play; that’s not going to get results for six to twelve months. The fastest way to get results with podcasts is by using other people’s platforms for leverage. So you know, a lot of times in finance, we’ll talk about other people’s money and leveraging that. It’s the same thing with media, right? So, if you can leverage other people’s platforms instead of just building your own from scratch, that’s golden.

So find somebody who is already talking to your audience, that’s already trusted by your audience, and go to them and show them the value that you can bring. And boy, if you can get introduced to their audience, get that know, like, and trust, get the backlinks from it, that is the quickest way. And especially today, people are listening, right? They’re looking for answers; it’s not just entertainment anymore, it’s vital to their business. And I would say those early adopters, those people that are going to come out of this strongest are the ones that are looking for the answers right now.

And I don’t know about you, but those are my customers that I want to work with. You know, there are some people that still listen to 80s rock, God love them. But the ones that are trying to build something looking forward in the future, they’re looking for answers, and they’re either gonna hear us or they’re gonna hear our competitors.

Barbara Turley: Yeah, look, I think the other thing to remember is, you know, anyone listening out there who thinks, “Oh, I just, you know, trying to launch a podcast,” and we’ll get to that in a second. You know, that’s gonna take time, strategy, whatever. There are loads of podcast hosts out there who are looking for people to interview, for people who can add value in this particular environment. And it might not, it might be to do with your business, it could just be building your brand, so you don’t always have to be selling something. You know, I think, Tom, you would say that it’s about being out there and having your voice out there. I know that’s what I’m doing with The Virtual Hub, I’m on podcasts all the time. Sometimes I’m not even talking about VAs, I’m just talking about business building, but it still drives business to The Virtual Hub for us, it’s been a very good strategy.

So, Tom, what advice would you give somebody about? You know, first of all, what kinds of topics do you think right now hosts are really looking for, and what makes a great guest? How do you be a great guest on a podcast?

Tom Schwab: That’s a great question. And I think this is not only what they’re looking for now, but they’ll always be looking for. Have something that’s timely, that speaks to their audience, but make sure it’s timeless also, right? So, podcasts are an evergreen medium. While we’re recording this here in April, there’s somebody in October who’s gonna be listening to this. So you want to make sure that the advice is timely and timeless.

The other thing, too, is to come ready to serve, right? Gary Vaynerchuk talks about jab, jab, jab, right hook. I probably missed a couple of jabs in there. I look at it as serve, serve, serve, serve, ask, and the ask is going to be people asking to work with you, right? So when you reach out to a podcast host, nobody likes a cold pitch, right? Listen to the podcast, leave a rating and review, we’re all vain, right? We listen for our own names. So share the content, make comments on it, and then when you reach out, you can say hey, here is something that I have that would, I believe, add value to your audience. And you know, then go there and just add value.

Tom Schwab: You know, your goal as a podcast guest is not to sell, it’s to make the host look like a genius for introducing you to their audience. Because if you do that, they’ll promote you more than you ever could. And my favorite tweet out there is from a guy by the name of Rand Fishkin. Rand started a company called Moz, and he said, “Today, the best way to sell something is not to sell anything, but to earn the respect, awareness, and trust of those who might buy.” And that’s what you’re doing with this show, that’s what I do on podcast interviews. Just getting out there, you know, people buy from those they know, like, and trust. That’s really hard to do off of a quick ad, but it’s easy to do off of a discussion.

Barbara Turley: Yeah, and people get to know you. And I think as well it’s leadership, the world is crying out for leadership right now. So I wouldn’t get too stressed out about what your topic is going to be like. If you’ve got something you can share out there that helps in a crisis in particular right now, then podcast hosts are gonna want to know. So let’s move on Tom, quickly to you know, launching—I mean, of course, like launching your own podcast, it’s like having a book. It’s kinda like your business card. I mean, the credibility having your own podcast gives you is amazing. What in your experience, like are the best, you know, different podcasts—but in your experience, how do you be different? Like there’s loads of podcasts out there. How do we be different if it’s possible?

Tom Schwab: Right, cause, be different, not better. And so from that, you know, people come to me and say, should I be a podcast guest or a podcast host? And I say it’s like asking to be an Uber driver or an Uber passenger, same platform, two different goals, right? So if you want to get new clients, if you want to get new leads, then go out and be a podcast guest. If you want to nurture your current leads, if you want to nurture your current customers, that’s great to be a podcast host. And with that, be real, right? I always say the best podcasts are like just a discussion, like if we were sitting down having coffee, and this discussion we’re having right now—

Barbara Turley: We do actually, I mean, you and I have these chats anyway—

Tom Schwab: Exactly.

Barbara Turley: Because we really happen to do this one live, you know.

Tom Schwab: That’s interesting. Take this spotlight, put it on other people. So it’s not just on you. Show success stories from your team, from your customers, bring in people that you think would be ideal customers, right? They might not take a 45-minute sales call from you, but they might go on your podcast. There’s a great book out there called Content-Based Marketing or Networking by James Carberry. And he talks about that—if you start to build content with people, you build a relationship with them, and it’s a great way to network there. And you know, be different, don’t be better, have a great discussion. I think the podcast where they ask the same five questions to every person, they get really old. I mean, they get old for the listener; they must get old for the host too.

Barbara Turley: Well, even for the guests. So I’ve done a few of those, and you just find yourself kind of—you feel under pressure because you’re just answering this question all the time. The ones, the podcast I love guesting on the best, well, probably because this suits my style. I don’t like preparing for these things too much. I just like getting on there and like, there’s no question you can ask me live that I wouldn’t be able to answer because I just answer as I would in a private conversation more often than not. And I know for me personally that has worked on podcasts. The feedback I’ve gotten is that I’m just really raw and real, and I just say it like it is, and that works really well. It might not work for everyone’s personality, but I think on a podcast, it’s a unique medium. And I always try and think about when you’re listening to the radio, it’s the same sort of thing. We love when people are really real on radio shows, and it’s the same thing with podcasts—you don’t want it to be stilted.

And of course these days, you can do—I mean, you can live stream like what we’re doing. And you know, the tech behind this, I did this myself with a couple of VAs and it’s actually not that hard once you get your head around it. And then you can rip this and you can put it on iTunes, and you can do loads of things with it. So let’s talk, Tom, what else can we do with the podcast? So it’s not just the audio file, let’s talk about content and content amplification and repurposing. What sorts of things should we be doing with the podcast?

Tom Schwab: And I feel guilty as you were saying that because it’s true as a guest, I just show up and answer the questions. You were there, behind the scenes, making sure everything worked. And a lot of guests will just do that. They’ll show up, have the interview, and then move on. They’re missing such an opportunity. This is great content that you can repurpose, and your team can repurpose. I mean, your team at The Virtual Hub helps me repurpose it. So we’ll take this discussion here, right, 20–30 minutes. Well, we can then transcribe it. You know, I’ve written a whole lot of blogs in my life, and every one felt like a homework assignment. But you could take this transcription, clean it up, make it sound like I’m educated, and you can turn it into blog posts. You can take a snippet and make a little audiogram out of it and put it up on Facebook. You can take a little meme, a tweet, and put it up there.

There are so many different ways you can do it. You know, last year during the slow times of the holidays, I challenged the team—what kind of content could you make from a podcast interview. And it was amazing. Without me doing anything, they were able to make a month’s worth of content out of every podcast interview. So that is such a powerful way, and it’s evergreen content. So just because somebody didn’t hear it today when it went live doesn’t mean that they won’t find value from it six months from now or a year from now. And so from that standpoint, it’s easy to create, it’s easy to repurpose, and like you said, the medium is such that the host wants to make you look like an expert. They’re not going to ask you a question out of left field, and most of the time it’s on your opinion on something or your expertise in business. So it’s just such a powerful medium.

Barbara Turley: And look, shameless plug for The Virtual Hub. I, you know, we train VAs on repurposing content. That’s what we do. We do podcasts, and we make it easy for people to get started. And I was even thinking, you know, we did podcasts on this show like maybe two years ago that I was looking through our podcasts and going, “Gee, we should re-promote those now with a little live to go with it, or maybe a new intro,” to say like right now. For example, we did a podcast about managing expectations with a virtual team. And right now, in all the whole remote work thing that’s going on, everyone is trying to figure out how to do this. And we have some fantastic shows that we recorded, Matt and I recorded them like two years ago. So you know, what’s the point of letting dust gather on those? We may as well get them out and repurpose them and go again; it’s still great content. It doesn’t mean you’re just rehashing old stuff.

And so what about the growth of podcasts, and we might sort of finish up on this point. Growth of the podcast industry right now in general—I mean, it’s exploding. Can you give us some insights? You attend all the conferences, and you’re in this game.

Tom Schwab: The numbers right now are that there are over 900,000 podcasts. And people say, well, that means it’s saturated. No, there’s like, I think it’s 40 million blogs. So we’re not even close to that. But that 900,000, there’s a little asterisk by that. Only a quarter of a million, 250,000, have actually been published in the last 30 days. So it’s really easy to start a podcast, but in the industry, it’s called podfade. If you’re trying to do it all by yourself, life gets tough, and most podcasts that die, die within the first 10 episodes. So there are a lot of podcasts out there just recently. So here we are in April, podcast listenership is up 25% this year.

Now, if you look at some numbers, it depends on what the podcast is right now, during this crisis. There’s no sports going on, so sports podcasts are just getting killed, right? Who wants to listen to the score from six months ago, but other podcasts are really taking off? And the other thing that we’re seeing is that the average number of listeners per podcast is going down. And people say, well, that’s bad. So a few years ago, the top 1% of podcasts got 54,000 listeners per episode. Now it’s down to 47,000. And people said, “Oh, it’s only 47,000?” And I’m like, can you imagine going into a stadium and speaking to 47,000 people, or even if it’s 100 people, or 1000 people, those are people that have opted in to listen to you.

You know, the studies say most of them, 80% of them, listened to the entire episode. Last year, we had a client who spoke at a baseball stadium in front of 30,000 people, and I remember talking to him beforehand, and he was nervous, and I said, “Don’t worry, you’ve talked to more people on a podcast than this.” And he shook his head and went, “Yeah, but they weren’t looking back at me.”

Barbara Turley: I was just thinking that, like, it is actually the equivalent of speaking to that many thousands of people. And then the medium is just so powerful, this whole medium, and you’d said something on your social media the other day, which I agree with, actually, you’d said, you know, it’s at the moment anyway, it’s like the new speaking from the stage. And that resonated with me, not just because at the moment in the crisis we’re in right now, we can’t travel and we can’t fly and we can’t go to events, there’s no events, but even in a day to day thing, like I had a baby last year, you know, I’ve got two young children, I can’t fly to conferences and I’d love to go to lots of different things and I’d love to be a speaker but I can’t. It’s very hard for me to do that, and lots of mums and dads and lots of people can’t, but you can still reach the same number of people by doing podcasting and by appearing on video, and like we didn’t even touch on YouTube. I mean, you can; this is actually streaming on YouTube right now as well. And we’re going to have this on our YouTube channel. So all of a sudden, we have a podcast and a video medium. So like, I’m a massive fan, it has worked really well for us at The Virtual Hub as a business and for me personally, building my personal brand, so for us, we’re actually ramping up this strategy and not pulling it back in this environment.

And that was the reason I really wanted to get you on Tom to talk to our listeners. And just to encourage people that might have been just sort of thinking about it, but not sure how to do it, how can they find out more about Interview Valet, about you, the work you’re doing and connect, where do you want to send them?

Tom Schwab: Well, thank you. Just go to interviewvalet.com/vss for Virtual Success Show. And there’s a page there, and Barbs from The Virtual Hub makes those all for us. And on there, you’re going to see an assessment, right, that says, will this work for me? Answer the questions and you’ll find out. There’s also a copy of the book; it’s a free copy, right? I sell a lot of these, but I give more away. It’s Podcast Guest Profits, it’s how to grow your business with the targeted interview strategy. It’s the playbook, the cookbook that we use. And then finally, if any of this resonated with you, if it made sense, if it’s like, “Yeah, I’d like to do that. Can you help me?” I’ll put my calendar link there too. Also, at interviewvalet.com/vss.

Barbara Turley: That’s brilliant. Listen, Tom, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing this like what I believe is one of literally the number one marketing strategy out there right now is this, especially when coupled with live streaming like what we’re doing right here and I’m doing this to show people kind of how you do it. We can help, thevirtualhub.com. If you need help with any of this stuff, set it up. We’ve got the VAs trained in all of this, so come and chat with us as well. And don’t let the tech or the setup stop you… Basically, that’s the secret here. Don’t let any of it stop you because there are people who could help you to do it. Thanks very much, Tom. We’re going to be going live again early next week, and we’ll be talking about pivoting. And I’ll be talking to a lady who wrote the book on pivot methods. So, tune in next week, and thanks, Tom. Thanks, everyone, for listening.

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